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Branco
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Posted: Thu Aug 28th, 2008 04:59 pm |
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For several months I have been trying to find a DNA lab to analyse any residue that may have been left in the peanut butter jar that Plowboy and Btyler696 used as part of their research in Talladega County.
( See: http://www.alabamabigfoot.com/bigfoot/reports/RFPreport43.htm )
My problem has been that all of the labs have quoted unbelievably high rates for doing the analyses and possibly having to compare the results to a very large data base to try match and identify the specific animal. (Some labs quoted prices that were in excess of $ 150,000.00) And, of course, if the sample actually came from a Bigoot, it could not be matched anyway.
I have been in contact with the staff of a DNA lab in Texas that can and will extract any sample inside the jar and perform the analysis. But, all they can do for the quoted price is to compare it to humans and known North American indigenous wildlife and typical livestock and pets. Given the history of this container, any DNA analytical results that do not match a human or any animal from one those groups would, in my opinion, serve as a temporary DNA standard for at least one of the reclusive forest primates. The lab agreeded to do this work for $ 400.00.
If the results do show DNA profiles that can't be identified, perhaps we can go a step further and have more comparsions done by this or another organization.
I solict the advice of all members about this project before I submit the sample container. And, if it seems worthwhile to you, I would solict donations to help defray the costs.
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saycheez
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Posted: Thu Aug 28th, 2008 06:31 pm |
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| I'll chip in $20, and call it money well spent, if it nails down a lab that we can work with if the need arises again.
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Donna C
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Posted: Sat Aug 30th, 2008 02:25 am |
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I'll chip in a few bucks too Branco.
Donna
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watch1
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Posted: Sat Aug 30th, 2008 03:41 am |
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I'll throw in $50 if someone will match me.
I think this will be a very important thing to see done. It might, if nothing else, get others looking in the south. What if it does come up..unknown primate? That means we have "unknown" primates in the south as well as the PNW.
Mike (watch1)
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Lorraine
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Posted: Sun Aug 31st, 2008 06:54 pm |
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I'll chip in. If there is a viable sample of DNA to be sequenced, and it doesn't match a known animal, perhaps it can be compared to other suspected BF DNA samples.
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Robroy
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Posted: Sun Aug 31st, 2008 07:54 pm |
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if it will help sure i'd chip in ,,,Be very interesting to see the outcome!
RobRoy
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SkunkApe
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Posted: Mon Sep 1st, 2008 01:44 am |
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Tal,
I'll chip in, let me know how much you fall short of the total.
Pat
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I believe that we can learn much more by attempting to communicate and passively study them, than by merely producing a body.
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dlaw
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Posted: Mon Sep 1st, 2008 08:06 pm |
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I'll match the $50 by Mike. Just PM me your address.
Dave
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Branco
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Posted: Wed Sep 3rd, 2008 11:20 pm |
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Thanks to all of you have volunteered to share the expense of the DNA analyses. I have worried about this situation and the possibility that the analysis may show no DNA (there is a possibility that the container was cleaned by washing it in a creek after the contents were removed). I don't feel comfortable asking that you folks share the expenses of a worthless DNA analyses, so I have decided to do this:
1) I will go ahead and submit the container to the lab along with an explict letter explaining the situation under which the possible DNA was obtained and explain the DNA profile (if any) must be kept on file at the lab, and a copy of the report forwarded to me.
2) If no DNA profile is obtained, a copy of that report will be forwarded to me and I will pay the full cost of the tests.
3) If a DNA profile is obtained that indicates a human-like sequence, but one which does match a human, I will post a note on the forum to that effect and ask that those who have already volunteered to help with the cost BEFORE the results are made public, send their donations to me so that their names can go on record as having assisted in this project. A copy of any report from the lab will be posted on the forum. A copy of the invoice from the lab will also be posted.
It would be hard for me to accept money beforehand, because it may be for nothing. The primary reason for me asking for donations was to give the forum members an opportunity to have a part in something that may be historical. I would not enjoy seeing people waste their money for nothing. Too many critic would see this as an attempt by me to "make money", no matter what. (It would take a heck of a lot more money than $400 for me to break even on my deals with Mr. BF.)
Regards,
Tal
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dwells
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Posted: Wed Sep 3rd, 2008 11:58 pm |
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Tal I would like to applaude you on your work and straight forward approch. I look forward to meeting you some day. I can only hope to half as good as you and a few more here on the ABRF. Thank you for your hard work and the time you giving to this quest for Bigfoot.  Also thank you all the rest of you who give up alot to do this everyday ,so that folks like me can learn more about our world and the world of the SRFP. again thank you all !!!!!!!!!! That's just the way I see it!!
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saycheez
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Posted: Thu Sep 4th, 2008 01:31 am |
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Thanks Tal,
I hope there is a result that helps forward our knowledge and understanding of these creatures, but I would gladly chip in just to know that there is a lab out there that will work with us and that is at least in the ballpark of affordability. 400 dollars isn't cheap, but it is so much better than the several thousand that I've heard thrown around before.
I have a mirror that I left out with some food that I was gifting about a year ago. It has several finger prints and looks like someone licked it and rubbed their face on it. I just put it away in an acid free envelope and have been waiting to hear about a reasonable testing lab. It very likely has saliva on it and although it wouldn't prove anything that I can think of, it would still be one more piece of a pretty big puzzle.Attachment: 060307_220_mirror.jpg (Downloaded 170 times)
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Robroy
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Posted: Thu Sep 4th, 2008 02:31 pm |
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| Thanks Tal,your a great guy! Just let us know.
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Branco
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Posted: Sat Sep 6th, 2008 03:05 pm |
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The container was sent to the DNA lab on Thursday, September 4. After further discussions with the lab personnel, they now says that if the analyses shows a non-human profile, it will cost about another $300 for technical time and lab reagents to try to confirm the DNA sample is not from a human and has not been contaminated. Another bump in the road.
But, it beats (by a long shot) the costs at other labs, and we have to do this if we are actually doing research.
(I may have to start selling some of the scuppernong wine I am making to pay my part. LOL.)
Last edited on Sat Sep 6th, 2008 03:06 pm by Branco
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Donna C
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Posted: Sat Sep 6th, 2008 03:21 pm |
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Scuppernong wine??????? What in the world is that?
Donna
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Robroy
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Posted: Sat Sep 6th, 2008 08:30 pm |
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Tal,we have started several gallons also,lol.
Daniel Boone is even trying to see if he can outdo his daddy!!
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Branco
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Posted: Sun Sep 7th, 2008 02:24 am |
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| Donna: Scuppernongs are a type of muscadine grape. They are yellow/brown when ripe, and as sweet as sugar. They make excellent jelly and wine. The old timers grew them for those purposes. The vines can grow to unbelieveable size and length. Many wine makers, both personal and commerical, now make that kind of wine. When done right it is awesome. I have two vines that are about 45 years old and even though I use gallons and gallons of the fruit, and give many more gallons of fruit away, I still have fruit going to waste.
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Donna C
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Posted: Sun Sep 7th, 2008 04:04 pm |
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Ohhh!! Yellow muscadines! We have those here, but I've just always called them yellow muscadines. I like the name scuppernongs much better. Thanks Branco!
If you ever have any extra wine hanging around........let me know. 
Donna
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Lorraine
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Posted: Tue Sep 9th, 2008 09:42 am |
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Tal, I'm willing to chip in even if the results don't come up with any usable DNA. The way I see it, it's not a useless experiment if it doesn't work. Getting DNA from a BF is probably going to take a lot of long shots before we get lucky, but every attempt will help us figure out what might work and rule out what probably won't. If we're all willing to help fund the long shots, our chances will be better that we'll finally get something usable.
I wonder if there's any way we can get one of the big guys to chew on a toothbrush! That might be a good way to collect buccal cells for a DNA analysis.
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SkunkApe
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Posted: Tue Sep 9th, 2008 11:31 am |
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Tal,
Can you go ahead and pm me with your mailing address so that I can put a check in the mail? I'm sure that the lab won't release the results until they are paid for their services. I looks like the total will be $700.00, so if any of you can still support this effort, lets put some checks in the mail for Mr. Tal.
I've been thinking that there will be more opportunities for DNA testing, so I have thought up a plan for how to pay for more testing. For those who wish to participate, I suggest that we contribute a small amount say $5.00 per month, and over time this amount will add up to a figure that can pay for additional DNA testing if the opportunity presents itself. I think with the calibre of researchers that we have associated with this site, it is a real possibility that we can collect other samples of DNA or fingerprints. Five dollars should be easy enough for most of us to contribute to a good cause. And with enough people adding to the kitty, over time it can be enough for our purposes. I suggest that Mr. Tal keep a log of who and how much is being contributed, and if the fund gets to be more than needed, he can just post for everyone to stop paying for a while. Remember this would be strictly VOLUNTARY, and if someone isn't able to contribute that would be understandable. Only people who are able to afford an extra $5.00 should contribute. This fund could be called "Reclusive Forest Primate DNA Testing Fund". Voluntary dues would be paid by the first of every month. For those of you who haven't met Mr. Tal yet, I can assure you that he is of the one of the most honorable persons I have met in a long time.
I know in the past I have contributed electronic equipment to deserving people such as game cams, camcorders, microphones, and digital recorders to help research these incredible creatures, this Will be an opportunity for all of us to help just a little bit.
Pat
____________________
I believe that we can learn much more by attempting to communicate and passively study them, than by merely producing a body.
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Donna C
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Posted: Tue Sep 9th, 2008 12:38 pm |
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Great idea Pat. I'm game....
Donna
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watch1
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Posted: Tue Sep 9th, 2008 03:08 pm |
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I am wondering how many folks have Paypal accounts?
I do .. and this would be an easy way to keep track and transfer funds.
Mike (watch1)
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Lorraine
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Posted: Tue Sep 9th, 2008 03:21 pm |
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I like the idea of monthly contributions. I'd happily contribute. I suggest that before it's implemented, some thought and structure go into it to avoid the potential for future problems.
1) How will the funds be held and who will have access to the funds? (Will it be in a personal bank account? Alabama BF Research bank account? etc.)
2) Is there any obligation to report the amount held to contributors? How often?
3) How will the decision be made about what the funding goes toward? Is there any obligation to report decisions to contributors?
4) Who is eligible for funding? Could another small research group apply for funding if they have what appears to be a specimen with a good potential for a usable DNA finding?
5) Who will be involved in making those decisions?
6) Will a database be kept of the research results? By whom? Will someone keep a backup of the data? Who?
7) To whom will the database, assuming it's agreed there is to be one, be available?
8) If the data is released, what stipulations will there be with its release (for example, can it be published? posted on a researcher's or groups Website?). If it's to be released to other researchers, there should be a signed release form stipulating how the data may be used.
I personally completely trust Tal, but we don't want to put him in an awkward position or in the eye of a hurricane if there is future contention about, for example, who can have access to the information collected. We're probably talking about a small amount of funding, considering the expense of the testing, but the funding could grow over time, and I've seen the silliest questions about small funding issues tear apart groups of people who had been friends for decades.
Of course, we could also just agree to give one person complete control of the funds and decision-making about them and keep things simple. As long as we all agree to that, no one can really complain about anything down the road.
Edit to answer above post: I have a Paypal account. I think that would be an easy way to make payments.
Last edited on Tue Sep 9th, 2008 03:23 pm by Lorraine
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Dutch
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Posted: Wed Sep 10th, 2008 04:08 pm |
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If you can get a PayPal account working, I'll be able to support the cause. I won't have access to my checks until I get back home in a couple of months.
I am also interested in supporting Mr. Branco on a regular basis. Consider it payment for all I have learned from his research which is far better than anectdotal accounts written in book form.
Dutch
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aecaw
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Posted: Thu Sep 11th, 2008 05:17 am |
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Just a thought. Why couldn't we elect a 3 person panel to oversee the money collected? This panel could also take into consideration where the money would be used. Any project that the panel considered to be worthy of funding could post information on the project and let it be put to a vote by the members of this forum. Perhaps the panel could post (or e-mail) a quarterly statement concerning any money collected or spent? Could this work?
AECAW
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Branco
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Posted: Sat Oct 4th, 2008 04:16 pm |
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Folks: As of yesterday, I have still not received a report from the DNA lab. But they swabbed the container more than a week ago. I know everyone is interested in the analyses but the lab is being very thorough which I appreciate. (After 23 years in a research lab, I know the drill.)
Hang on, and keep your fingers crossed.
Regards
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