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ForestDweller
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Posted: Tue Nov 18th, 2008 03:27 pm |
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I have recently spoken to a Phd in regards to the abilities of night creatures to see things in infrared or ultraviolet. It is this scientists professional opinion that there are no creatures that can see in infrared as long as they must have water in their eyes. The water blocks the ability to see the infrared light. He also ran of a bunch of ultraviolet figures that convinced me that some creatures may be able to see in it but they would have to be at a certain level numerically to do that. Please don't ask me to explain, it was all I could do to keep up with him. But any creature would have to be at a number around 350 of something lol to see in the ultraviolet.
So if the BF see in either of these it may mean that they are an artificial being with cameras for eyes. If this gentleman is correct then the BF must see like a cat does by the dialation of his eye pupils.
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Lorraine
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Posted: Wed Nov 19th, 2008 01:17 am |
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Interesting! So, if BF can sense gamecams and video cameras, as they seem to be able to, what might be tipping them off? Scent? Sounds in a range we can't hear? And how do they perceive these things that they know to avoid them or move very quickly through them. It's certainly not trial and error since there doesn't seem to be a lot of BFs blundering past gamecams and getting their pictures taken.
The guy who runs the Kentucky BF live cam says he saw a BF walk into his front yard, and as it approached the range of the infrared light and videocam, it suddenly took off running incredibly fast through the area covered by the light (across his driveway) and into the trees. Before he put the light up, he said they'd come from the trees across the road and down his driveway, heading to the woods and fields behind his house. When he excitedly ran to check the video, all he saw was the faintest blur. He put it on the site for a while, and if you knew to look for a blur, you'd see one cross the screen, but otherwise you'd probably miss it. If he really saw what he claimed, it seems as if the BF knew exactly where the light fell and that if he moved quickly he'd not be picked up by the film. Very mysterious...
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watch1
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Posted: Wed Nov 19th, 2008 03:07 am |
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This has been talked about before. Many posts and a lot of info in the forum.
The search box is our friend. (IR) and (UV)ultraviolet.
Mike (watch1)
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watch1
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Posted: Wed Nov 19th, 2008 03:10 am |
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Posted: Thu Nov 29th, 2007 10:37 pm 
http://www.alabamabigfoot.com%2Fforums%2Fview_topic.php%3Fid%3D186%26forum_id%3D4%26highlight%3DUV]Report
http://pin.primate.wisc.edu/factsheets/entry/owl_primate
Nothing to scientifically back that up with. Just that I find the abilities of these creatures to be very similar ..from what little I know about them.
Owl primates are "New World" primates.
The question remains if Bigfoot can see IR or Ultraviolet light. I think this is also a possibility , but..it could be very limited. It would not really take much of a difference in the visual spectrum to include these ranges
If they can see UV then the UV brighteners that are applied to many items..such as hunters camo ..would stand out like a neon sign to these creatures.
Just my thoughts.
Mike (watch1)
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dwells
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Posted: Wed Nov 19th, 2008 05:16 am |
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I feel like there is something to this.I see on TV all the time how they say deer can see our cloths glowing from UV light ! Why not boogers! They live in the same woods as the deer do and eat them also. It just makes sense they can see this way! But thats just the way I see it. (No pun intended)hee hee hee
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ForestDweller
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Posted: Wed Nov 19th, 2008 01:42 pm |
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Personally I think they see in ultraviolet, to me this is how they can see man made items. In ultraviolet camo would lite up like a neon light as well as most clothing. Just a flat black would not be seen.
As far as avoiding this mans camera I don't think that the BF would know that he was just a blurr running but he did seem to notice something different on the house and it was the different thing that made him run I suppose.
It does seem very strange that all other animals will get caught on a game cam but a BF won't. Because of this we all speculate about their super abilities. But it might just be that they recognize machines as being man made and therefore will avoid them whenever they encounter them. I know that on this site most don't like to entertain the possibility that these creatures are spiritual, or interdemsional, or extraterrestrial.
Again I don't think they are but these ideas have not been disproved either.
When dealing with the unknown and there is still much that is unknown about the BF we cannot be close minded to anything new or anything we don't yet understand. All we know about the BF is that they are smarter then we are and love to live in the woods.
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Forest D.
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bigfootracks
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Posted: Wed Nov 19th, 2008 07:07 pm |
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DWELLS--I know deer can see uv light very well. back in1989 i bought new then treebark camo hunting clothes. First night out wearing them i had a nice buck spot me setting deep in the branches of a pine tree. The deer spoted me at 200 yards.width the wind in my favor. The next day i took may treebark and my military bdu`s to work and look at them under my black lights at work. T treebark showed up like a christmas tree,but my bdu`s reflected nothing. ps alway washed clothes in bakeing soda.
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ole bub
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Posted: Wed Nov 19th, 2008 07:41 pm |
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Good afternoon folks...
Ask Old Crow or Skunkape whether the "big folks" can see in the IR spectrum...the most compelling imagery I've ever seen was taken by Old Crow...edited by Pat, and fraudulently obtained by a thug, who claimed it as his own when he posted an edited version on Youtube....no bueno
live and let live...
ole bub and the dawgs
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ForestDweller
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Posted: Wed Nov 19th, 2008 11:39 pm |
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Then if BF can see in infrared does that mean that it has no water in its eyes?
Read above post.
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Forest D.
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watch1
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Posted: Thu Nov 20th, 2008 12:30 am |
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I think it means..some folks with Phds don't know everything and thats saying it nicely.
Mike (watch1)
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ForestDweller
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Posted: Thu Nov 20th, 2008 03:16 pm |
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Try this experiment. Take your TV remote control and point it at your face. Then press the power button on and off. I bet you don't see anything. Now take the same remote and take your digital camera and do the same to the camera as you just did to your face. Unless your camera has a infrared filter in it you will see the remote controllers light flashing in the viewers screen. Now that tells me that someone knows a little about water in the eyes and cameras.
But be that as it may they still see at night very well and that's a fact. "I'm not a smart man but I know Bigfoot can see at night". Just don't know how he does it.
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harry_footicus
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Posted: Thu Nov 20th, 2008 06:45 pm |
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This topic of Bigfoot seeing in IR has been touched on before a couple of times. I used the search box and found a post put up in the past under the topic of "eye color" I myself am satisfied that Bigfoot/feet can see in the dark, and can do so very well. Anyway, here is the link to the post about the eyes...(I hope it sheds some light on things...lol):
http://www.alabamabigfoot.com/forums/view_topic.php?id=485&forum_id=4&highlight=cones
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ForestDweller
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Posted: Thu Nov 20th, 2008 08:58 pm |
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I don't remember anyone on this topic ever saying that a BF can not see in the dark. I think that fact was established before anyone on this forum was ever born. The question how they see is a fascinating one and if it is talked about more then once what is the harm in that? Twice now that statement has been made and it seems that those who have made it are frustrated with the topic being discussed again.
Well I'm sorry for your frustration but I'm of the opinion that there are no dumb questions. Don't be surprised if this subject comes up again by someone who was not in on the last time it was discussed. Maybe just politely copy and paste the link for all to read the old post. I read them now and have found them very informative especially DB's response to the topic. Which is exactly what I stated in an earlier post. "Maybe they just see like a cat at night time by the dialation of the eyes allowing more light to enter".
If one can't come to a Bigfoot forum to learn then where can they go?
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Forest D.
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watch1
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Posted: Thu Nov 20th, 2008 09:59 pm |
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ForestDweller wrote: I have recently spoken to a Phd in regards to the abilities of night creatures to see things in infrared or ultraviolet. It is this scientists professional opinion that there are no creatures that can see in infrared as long as they must have water in their eyes. The water blocks the ability to see the infrared light. He also ran of a bunch of ultraviolet figures that convinced me that some creatures may be able to see in it but they would have to be at a certain level numerically to do that. Please don't ask me to explain, it was all I could do to keep up with him. But any creature would have to be at a number around 350 of something lol to see in the ultraviolet.
So if the BF see in either of these it may mean that they are an artificial being with cameras for eyes. If this gentleman is correct then the BF must see like a cat does by the dialation of his eye pupils.
I think what got this started is this :It is this scientists professional opinion that there are no creatures that can see in infrared as long as they must have water in their eyes.
What does not have water in its eyes?
I have looked at this all before and the answer is..I and the "professionals" don't know what the eye sight capabilities of a Bigfoot are exactly. All we have is field experience that points in the direction that somehow they can detect IR game cams or they hear the cameras "warming up to fire" and they move out of the way.
If you look at the electro magnetic spectrum : http://imagine.gsfc.nasa.gov/docs/science/know_l1/emspectrum.html
you will see that IR and UV border our visible light range. If a Bigfoots sight range varied any in one direction or the other..then they could see in the UV range or IR range.
I see no reason in trying to push the issue as I know of NO real "Expert" that has the answer to this.
Mike (watch1)
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7fireflies
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Posted: Thu Nov 20th, 2008 10:24 pm |
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| Honestly, there does not seem to be a single shred of scientific proof that any animal other than some snakes, fish and insects can see infrared. Yet time and time again, as we study this giant, we have discovered that they do avoid infrared. It was easy to assume that somehow they actually could see it but it must be that they are detecting it in a more mysterious way.
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ForestDweller
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Posted: Thu Nov 20th, 2008 11:12 pm |
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This explains how BF may see at night but not how they detect a game cam other then seeing it and knowing that it is a man made object.
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080411083753AAcH1Eu
Nocturnal mammals see in two main ways: they have more rods in their eyes, which are light-sensitive to a greater degree than cones, but cannot see color. Many also have a layer that reflects light back through the rods so that the eye gets a second shot to collect light. This is responsible for the eyeshine.
As for color vision, nearly all mammals lack the red receptor that humans have. This may render them red-green colorblind, but some testing suggests that most mammals can use feedback from their rods to determine light intensity and then intergrate that with the signals from their cones, giving them the ability to differentiate between colors that they cannot directly detect (like reds and oranges) and ones they can (like greens and blues).
However, a human who picked up nocturnal habits wouldn't acquire any of these abilities.
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grump13
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Posted: Fri Nov 21st, 2008 10:18 pm |
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| does thermal imaging equipment use infra red ?
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watch1
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Posted: Sat Nov 22nd, 2008 12:06 am |
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grump13 wrote: does thermal imaging equipment use infra red ?
From what I understand about thermal devices, they do not emit anything. They work by detecting and seeing the differences in temperature in surrounding objects. They do not depend on IR light sources.
Mike (watch1)
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ForestDweller
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Posted: Sat Nov 22nd, 2008 10:45 am |
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There is a way to make a IR flash light. Its just a matter of taking a regular light and making a filter that blocks the normal light it emits and allows only the IR light through. This can be useful if you have a digital camera that will see the IR light at night time. Which all of them can do unless they have a IR filter in them to block IR light. I have made them and they do a pretty good job.
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Creekfreak
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Posted: Sat Nov 22nd, 2008 01:04 pm |
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My night vision came with different colored lenses I took the red one and put it in my mini mag light for extra ir it works pretty good I can see 200 yards .
People have been debateing this subject for so long we will probly never know if they can see it or not even if we get a body it would take a long time to study there eyes to find out if they can or not .
If they can see it we will just have to figure out new ways of geting photos of them at night .
Thermal is the way to go at this time but of course not all of us can afford to shell out that kind of money I dont see myself being able to get one any time soon so I have been rethinking my research .
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tennesseecherokee
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Posted: Sat Nov 22nd, 2008 04:59 pm |
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| While I am no Phd., and never have aspired to be, I will try to summerize what I get from this thread. As Watch 1, SevenFF's and HF have said--and done a darn great job of it, all we really know is that boogers somehow,have the ability to detect IR and avoid it. As far as rods and cones and color sensing abilities, I believe Dixie Banshee when he tells me these animals can detect color and have color preferences--and if my memory serves me---they do like RED ! Watch 1, has also made the best point I've heard---Phd's don't really know jack when it comes to boogers. Are they out there researching in the field or are they spouting supposed facts from a textbook? My money is on the folks who ask questions about these creatures, over and over again,until they get verifiable, reproducable answers. The folks that are doing this are the true "Phd's" and know what the heck they are talking about!-----Tennessee........
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Donna C
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Posted: Sat Nov 22nd, 2008 06:03 pm |
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Well said TnC!!!
Donna
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Dricke
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Posted: Sat Nov 22nd, 2008 07:29 pm |
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Let me relate a story I heard one time A feller had a small dog that liked to chase lights from a small flashlight shone on the floor oneday he noticed the dog had interest in the TV remote so he held the channel button down and pointed it to the floor moving it back and forth to his amazement the dog began to chase the invisible beam, so if the dog can see the IR from the TV remote?? Also I have noticed using our Gen 3 night vision with the IR illuminator on and I contact eyeshine it causes an immediate turning of the head and movement to get out of sight so to speek of a BF
Most gamecams do not give off any IR what gamecams use is a lot like what thermal imager uses and that is heat signatures moving through window like panes of areas like degrees ie: a object of higher background heat signature moving through 10 degrees to 20 degress will trigger the camera to take a picture. Warmer air or cooler air moving in front of cameras will cause cameras to fire giving us those shots with nothin in them. The avoidance issue I feel is caused by the lack of concealment of the cameras, imagine if your ex placed a camera on your wall to keep tabs on ya how long would it take you to find it?
An experiment i have tried and will work if one will keep it up but will take a lot of cameras is to make a line of cameras across a known crossing area or trail they use, start with one camera and face it to the back of another camera maybe 50 ft or so apart each camera facing the back of another camera so to speak, 10 cameras @ 50 ft. = 500ft so if the BF want to move through an area he cannot move through without getting his picture. I maybe a bit generous on the spacing of the cameras but I hope yall see what I mean.
Maybe we can try this at the next outting so if yall have gamecams bring em i have 6 or 7 myself more the better we could have two lines doubling our chances.
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ForestDweller
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Posted: Sun Nov 23rd, 2008 02:18 am |
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Thats well said and very interesting Dricke. I will try that on my dogs and cats to see what results I get.
As far as the PHd I would love to be a PHd in anything and after I received it I would go get me a job to learn how to apply what I learned in school. Whats wrong with having a degree like that? Nothing I would think especially when the one I spoke of is a field researcher and is useing his talents right in his back woods. There are many things in your lives that would not be here if it wasn't for some of these PHd's so maybe they are good for something. If a man is wrong it won't be the first time no matter what letters are behind his name. If he is right then good, no matter if there are no letters behind his name.
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ForestDweller
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Posted: Mon Nov 24th, 2008 02:31 pm |
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Not to be labor the point, but I have found a blog that may help us to understand our eyes and that of animals better.
http://hplusbiopolitics.wordpress.com/2008/09/15/therma-vision/
Human infra-red thermal vision Monday, 15 September, 2008  Infra-red (IR) vision refers to sensation AND visual integration of the wavelengths of light between 750 nm and 1mm. In contrast, the human eye can only detect light with wavelengths from 400nm (violet) to 700nm (red). It would be useful to detect infra-red light because although very hot objects emit visible light (hence the terms red hot and white hot) even modestly warm objects emit infrared light. For example, the human body emits light at a wavelength of 10 microns (or 10000nm), and if one could see these wavelengths, one would have the ability to see humans against a colder background (i.e. room temperature). Much like Predator.
Biological IR vision has many problems, the least of which is that n o visual pigment exists that can pick up infra-red light. There are many pigments that can detect ultraviolet (UV) light, with many birds, reptiles, fish and even some mammals (and insects, but their eye is sufficiently different to be irrelevant here) having visual pigments that absorb maximally at around 350-360nm (but can still detect light with a wavelength of 280nm, well into the near UV spectrum). It appears to be relatively easy to evolve UV vision, but IR vision is much harder. As far as I know, the deep-sea dragonfish, a fish that lives deep underwater where almost no light exists, has a porphyropsin that can detect into the near-infrared (these fish also produce their own deep red light, allowing them to see while no other fish can - not unlike a man-made night vision goggles) but even that has can barely detect photons of wavelengths of 750nm. Just barely into infra-red and certainly far short of the 10000nm required for heat-vision.
 The animals most famous for their infra-red ‘heat vision’ are the pit vipers (Crotalinae), though Boas and pythons (Boidae) have also independently evolved a more primitive version. They detect thermal radiation with wavelengths from 400nm (i.e. violet) all the way to 10600nm, but they do so not with their eyes, but with loreal pits (in Crotalinae) or labial pits/scales (in Boidae). These are small indentation just around the mouth - which in the Crotalinae are shaped very much like a pinhole camera - and detect heat not infra-red photons. In that sense, they are really just specialised structures that sense heat in the same way we humans can if we hold our hands over an open fire, and so probably utilise a heat-gated ion channel like the vannilloid receptor channel activated in human nerves by heat, pain, rubbing alcohol and chilli peppers. That said, the sensory information from these thermoreceptive pits (or scales) do integrate into the optic tectum, so it is very likely that the snakes are able to see the heat map of their world visually. But is it likely to have low spatial and temporal resolution and would be very short-sighted (a few metres at the most).
So, what is the issue with infrared photoreceptions? Why don’t they exist in nature already? Well, I’ve actually come up with four issues, only one of which may be easily solved (or may not be a problem in the first place).
First, immediately in front of the photoreceptors in the eye of all vertebrates is a few centimetres of water-based vitreous and aqueous fluid. Infra-red radiation is much lower in energy than visual light (remember the energy of a photon is inversely proportional to its wavelength), and water is very good at absorbing infra-red light. Therefore the eye would not actually be transparent for infra-red light, so may absorb a substantial fraction of the photons (van der Berg, 1997) before it hits the retina. It’s might not be so bad, though, because at the low energy of 10000nm, the light may even be too weak to be absorbed by water.
Second, neither of the two photo-active molecules in vertebrates photoreceptors, 11-cis-retinal (A1) or 11-cis-3,4-dehydroretinal (A2), would not stable if it was absorbing at this wavelength. In order to activate these pigments, energy must be supplied from either the light or from the thermal energy (Ala-Laurila et al, 2004). The lower the wavelength of light, the less energy the photons have, so the greater the thermal energy must contribute to the activation energy. The thermal energy, however, can activate the photoreceptor by itself - one of the reasons why cold-blooded creatures are theoretically more sensitive to single photons (because a single photon even is indistinguishable from random thermal activation, and cold creatures will have less thermal activity) (Aho et al, 1988). If we were trying to set up a molecule that would activate from an infra-red photon, even one with a much shorter wavelength than 10 microns, we’d have a molecule that would activate very easily due to thermal noise. In other words, we’d have a lot of ’static’ in a thermal visual system - so much so, that I doubt we’d be able to even see anything.
The third problem is the neural circuitry that would be required to process another colour. The retina has colour opponent ganglion cells, which feed into the colour-sensitive parvocellular layers of the lateral geniculate nucleus, which in turn stimulate sets of neurons called blob cells in the the visual cortex (Dacey, D.M., 1996). These systems are responsible for processing colour differences (for example, the difference between green and blue). There is a rare syndrome known as cerebral achromatopsia, where a person has a loss of colour vision (see the world in shades of gray) despite fully function cone photoreception, because of lesions to the parts of the brain responsible for this colour discrimination (Barbur et al, 1994). That said, it may be an undamaged brain will be able to adapt to accommodate any changes to colour-related inputs, even during adulthood (Neitz et al, 2002).
The last problem and perhaps the greatest problem with allowing humans to visualise thermal emissions, is that the eye itself it an emission source. The eye is covered in warm blood vessels, each emitting at the same wavelength as the other humans who we would like to detect with our thermal vision. Thermal signals from behind the photoreceptors could perhaps be shielded, allowing the photoreceptor cells to only detect signals from directly in front of it, but even the aqueous and vitreous humours and corneal cells are emitting thermal signals. The internal signal would still likely be greater than that reaching the photoreceptors from external emissions sources (like another person) . Pythons and pit vipers are cold-blooded, so they don’t have this problem. But to a warm-blooded human, it would be like trying to look out into the night from inside a brightly-lit room.
Therefore, I can only see two options for thermal vision in humans. One, we could have separate eyes mounted on a cold antennae, or use thermal-vision goggles. Considering that the latter option is already used, I say that method is the easiest to follow - one day, we may even integrate the output from such goggles into our visual cortex. Until then, despite its popularity as a possible enhancement, biological ly integrated infra-red thermal vision in humans will have to wait.
Posted in Genetic Modification | Tagged heat vision, thermal vision, transhumanism |
3 comments  All radiation has a frequency… Yes?
So what if the integrated equipment would nullify any radiation being received that would match the radiation being put out by the user?
Yes, this would create gaps in the field of vision, as you would not be able to see anything that matched the temperature of your eyes… But even so.. Maybe you could merely drop your temperature so that your temperature would be lower than that of which you are trying to see?
Hmm…
 by Nathan Friday, 3 October, 2008 at 4:47 pm
 Yes, this would create gaps in the field of vision, as you would not be able to see anything that matched the temperature of your eyes.
The temperature of your eyes is basically the same as the human body temperature, and the body temperature of most mammals and birds.
I’m not sure what the point of thermal vision would be if you couldn’t use it to see other people or animals.Maybe you could merely drop your temperature so that your temperature would be lower than that of which you are trying to see?
That would take a lot of effort. All the chemical reactions in your body, and the enzymes, are optimised for the body temperature. That’s why just a slight change causes heatstroke or hypothermia. You’d essentially have to change every enzyme in the body - a lot of effort, I assure you.
I suggested eyes mounted on cold stalks protruding from one’s head - that is more feasible, I think.
 by Joshua Saturday, 4 October, 2008 at 7:02 pm
 I’ve always wondered if the ability to see auras that some humans claim to possess could be a rare ability to detect infrared light. After all there are other rare differences in human sense organs, the one most familiar to me being the presence of an equivalent to the macula neglecta (found in fishes and used for hearing)in the inner ear of some humans.
 by Vernon C. Barber Tuesday, 7 October, 2008 at 5:17 am
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froggyvet
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Posted: Mon Nov 24th, 2008 02:52 pm |
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