| Author | Post |
|---|
oldcrow
Member
| Joined: | Tue Jul 31st, 2007 |
| Location: | USA |
| Posts: | 383 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Tue Apr 29th, 2008 01:57 pm |
|
Since its a slow week I thought I would toss something out to chatter about. Each of us have our own experiences that lead us on our own paths.
To me it isn't important to prove anything to anyone. I enjoy what I have experienced and what I know. I enjoy the company of others that have similar experiences.
The question is why is it important to prove that that the creature called Big Foot exist?
____________________
Teachers can learn much from their students.
|
tennesseecherokee
Member
|
Posted: Tue Apr 29th, 2008 02:38 pm |
|
| Good topic, OC ! I reckon that it is only important to the scientists and naysayers, ma'am. When you are secure in your own soul that RFP's exist, like probably all of us in this forum--it matters not. We are secure in the knowledge that the ancient ones are here and have been here much longer than we will ever realize. That's just my thoughts---------TnC-----------------------------
____________________
We will be known forever by the tracks we leave behind.
|
Robroy
Member
|
Posted: Tue Apr 29th, 2008 03:40 pm |
|
| MHO, I feel that some folks just has something to prove,,,but as far as I am concerned (my opinion) I believe they are safer now than they would be "in existance" if that makes any sense.
____________________
No-Fault/Asphault Insurance
It's just a Thought !
|
oldcrow
Member
| Joined: | Tue Jul 31st, 2007 |
| Location: | USA |
| Posts: | 383 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Tue Apr 29th, 2008 03:55 pm |
|
I believe they are safer now than they would be "in existance" if that makes any sense.
I think you are correct about that. They appear to do a fine job of taking care of themselves now without our help.
____________________
Teachers can learn much from their students.
|
Nokosee
Member
| Joined: | Tue Aug 21st, 2007 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 54 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Tue Apr 29th, 2008 04:14 pm |
|
IMHO....motivations can include ego mania (gotta "be somebody"), need for the (alleged) money it'll bring or a combination of both.
The historical evidence indicates it's a Anglo thing as ~15K years of NA history indicates an awareness of their existence w/o the need to "prove" it.
Odds are ~90/10 it would be a negative outcome for the SF if they were "proven" to be the real deal to mainstream society. The gov't would likely round them up and incarcerate them on something like the Pine Ridge Annex, et. al. and then steal any land they thought was available. 
|
ole bub
Member
| Joined: | Thu Dec 6th, 2007 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 40 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Thu May 1st, 2008 12:40 am |
|
Hokosee...
That's a (bleep) good idea...why didn't I think of that.
As long as they pay taxes...I'm all for it...LOL
live and let live...usually
ole bub and the dawgs
|
Lorraine
Member
| Joined: | Mon Oct 29th, 2007 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 235 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Thu May 1st, 2008 03:33 am |
|
I can think of a number of reasons why people feel it's important to prove they exist. As others have said, ego and financial gain are a couple of big ones. I suspect some people might find a sense of validation in proving to the rest of the world that something others scoff at them for believing in is real.
For my part, I think BF are doing a far better job of taking care of themselves than we would do for them should they become known. In fact, I believe it would be dangerous for them should their existence be widely recognized. I'd prefer they stay unacknowledged for now, and I like that RFP reseach is nearly solely the province of amateur researchers. I want to learn as much as possible about them to satisfy my own curiosity and to increase my own understanding of the world. I don't feel any need to prove they exist.
|
goodgoing
Member
|
Posted: Thu May 1st, 2008 06:15 am |
|
Amen, I agree totally and well said Lorraine. JMHO. I hope many others feel the same way....they have done just fine centuries without us.
goodgoing
____________________
keep an eye out for the invisible!!!
|
JayB
Member
|
Posted: Thu May 1st, 2008 07:50 am |
|
Great thread, Miz Crow. Early on, I hoped fervently that proof positive could be produced to establish the existence of the sas and to enable their classification. I have subsequently changed my thinking. I now believe that what I was really looking for was an 'in your face' for the irrational arguments coming from the 'scientific skeptics'. What good could come of that? I seriously doubt that the sas would be better off if such recognition became 'official'. I do think that the government would feel a need to take at least some control of the situation. Does anyone know of ANYTHING that has gotten BETTER (or more efficient) when control was assumed by the government? Then there is also the danger that some citizens would become very frightened and demand 'protection' for themselves and their families. Like most of you, I want to learn all I can about these wonderful enigmatic beings but I really don't see any advantage to them if they were to become 'officially recognized'.
JayB
|
Sunflower
Member
| Joined: | Sun Nov 25th, 2007 |
| Location: | Kansas USA |
| Posts: | 319 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Thu May 1st, 2008 02:56 pm |
|
It's interesting thinking about this subject now and the discoveries from close friends here and elsewhere, but if I had made an issue of what was in the woods making all the racket, I might not be here and now. I am so grateful for that. I also don't give a hoot whether they are recognized and catalogued like an insect.
Old Crow, thanks and I agree they are much better off without being recognized. Glad you brought this up for discussion.
|
nightscreamer
Member
|
Posted: Thu May 1st, 2008 10:36 pm |
|
| The best answer I have for proof is so my wife will no longer think I'm crazy. Then again, i guess it might take more than that!
|
FurBabiesFriend
Member
|
Posted: Wed May 7th, 2008 06:44 am |
|
Lorraine wrote: For my part, I think BF are doing a far better job of taking care of themselves than we would do for them should they become known. In fact, I believe it would be dangerous for them should their existence be widely recognized. I'd prefer they stay unacknowledged for now, and I like that RFP reseach is nearly solely the province of amateur researchers. I want to learn as much as possible about them to satisfy my own curiosity and to increase my own understanding of the world. I don't feel any need to prove they exist.
AMEN!! Lorraine, you put into words EXACTLY how I feel about this!!!
____________________
"The man with a new idea is a crank until that idea succeeds." - Mark Twain
|
FurBabiesFriend
Member
|
Posted: Wed May 7th, 2008 06:51 am |
|
JayB wrote: I do think that the government would feel a need to take at least some control of the situation. Does anyone know of ANYTHING that has gotten BETTER (or more efficient) when control was assumed by the government?
JayB
Government involvement would be detrimental to them. It would be The Trail of Tears-Part 2.
____________________
"The man with a new idea is a crank until that idea succeeds." - Mark Twain
|
7fireflies
Member
|
Posted: Sat May 10th, 2008 02:00 pm |
|
Great posts everyone! I agreed with the concept that the Foots would be better off without us, years ago, but I was expressing these sentiments to a proof finding community back then. Folks had their hearts in the right place wanting to protect them and all but the simple truth is that the government does have wisdom in this matter. For the government to admit the existence would be signing a death warrant on the species. Rare and endangered species are wiped out for that very reason because they are rare. The bald eagle was endangered and there were people shooting them. The government is protecting the Foot for several reasons. The first and foremost is the deep pockets of the oil and gas industry and the timber industry. Sadly, I think their preservation only comes second to the first eventhough I am sure our government is very aware of their geneology is connected to ours. The terrorists activities of 9/11 has taken the focus off of the Foots to a part but there are still local government agencies monitoring active areas and the folks who are collecting data on them. It is not uncommon to have evidence disapear from your house, find your phone lines tapped and your sent files copied. Air traffic during high activity is also another indication that our government whether local or federal knows. The best way to protect the foots and the money that those industries bring in is to plausibly deny the existence. Hunting for a body is murder pure and simple and will bring you and your family more trouble that you would have ever imagined. Not only is there a likely chance that you would experience retaliation from the Foots but the goverment will shut you down and shut you up. The Foots have been surviving for centuries without us. The only thing they need from us is to keep their secret and let them live as they always have.
7FF
____________________
Courage does not always roar, Sometimes it is a quiet voice at the end of the day, saying,......" I will try again tommorow."
Mary Anne Radmacher
|
tennesseecherokee
Member
|
Posted: Sat May 10th, 2008 02:55 pm |
|
| Well put and done with a passion! Never heard it explained better. This comes from a woman who knows what the (bleep) she is talking about and a caring compassionate soul.Bravo 7 ! ---------------TnC----------------
____________________
We will be known forever by the tracks we leave behind.
|
FurBabiesFriend
Member
|
Posted: Sat May 10th, 2008 07:09 pm |
|
7Fireflies wrote:
The Foots have been surviving for centuries without us. The only thing they need from us is to keep their secret and let them live as they always have.
I TOTALLY AGREE WITH EVERYTHING YOU SAID 7FF!...especially the quote above! It's clear this was written by someone who loves and cares for the Foots. It is also obvious that it was written by someone who knows the subject WELL!
I can personally vouch for the part about being "watched"... as can several friends of mine. If you habituate and/or collect evidence, keep your eyes and ears open for unmarked helicopters, telephones that act strangely, doors that are unlocked when you KNOW you had locked them, your computer's been physically tampered with as well as by viruses and hidden windows,...
I don't think anyone will ever be "allowed" to prove that Bigfoot exists. (That may very well be their saving grace.)
____________________
"The man with a new idea is a crank until that idea succeeds." - Mark Twain
|
BBray34
Member
|
Posted: Tue May 13th, 2008 08:03 am |
|
Even though I haven't lucky enough to see one like most of you have, I think the reason I'd like to prove their real is because if they are then the BF could be said to be our closest relative,not the chimpanzee like mainstream science wants us to believe. Just my opinion
____________________
All great truths begin as blasphemies
George Bernard Shaw
|
NDTerminator
Member
|
Posted: Thu May 22nd, 2008 04:19 am |
|
oldcrow wrote: Since its a slow week I thought I would toss something out to chatter about. Each of us have our own experiences that lead us on our own paths.
To me it isn't important to prove anything to anyone. I enjoy what I have experienced and what I know. I enjoy the company of others that have similar experiences.
The question is why is it important to prove that that the creature called Big Foot exist?
I pretty much second OC. Personally, I would love to be on a kill site so I can pet the dead booger (I've said many times I'm the least likely guy of all who would like to grass a primate, to ever lay the crosshairs on one) but I think in regard to the big picture, in the end it won't amount to a hill of beans. Big splash for maybe up to a year, and then actual existence of primates will be by& large old news...
Others have heard me say it but it bears saying again. primates aren't the most important thing in the world, and I wouldn't trade a stack of dead ones for a single friend I've made in this field...
____________________
"I'm not cynical, just experienced"
|
FurBabiesFriend
Member
|
Posted: Thu May 22nd, 2008 03:25 pm |
|
NDTerminator wrote: Personally, I would love to be on a kill site so I can pet the dead booger (I've said many times I'm the least likely guy of all who would like to grass a primate, to ever lay the crosshairs on one) but I think in regard to the big picture, in the end it won't amount to a hill of beans. Big splash for maybe up to a year...
NDT, thank you for your honesty about the kill thing. I don't agree obviously but I respect your truthfulness. I think you've got the last part right...in the end, proving their existence "won't amount to a hill of beans." It's too bad all the pro-kills don't realize that.
____________________
"The man with a new idea is a crank until that idea succeeds." - Mark Twain
|
7fireflies
Member
|
Posted: Sat May 24th, 2008 05:19 pm |
|
Pro-kill or No-kill, it is a continuous controversy. I never was on the pro-kill wagon even though when I first got into this 7 years ago, most of my constituants were. I used to think I was just soft hearted or something and wasn't really outspoken about the way I really felt. DB will remember when I heard another researcher say he would shoot a baby off the tit of it's mother if it would bring a body in, after that I went ape for a lack of a better word. That remark changed my stance on remaining quiet and from that moment on I was adamant in my no-kill stance. Some of my friends of the Foots, respect the rights and opinions of their pro-kill acquaintances, allowing them to feel the way they do. I understand that everybody has a belief. Like personal beliefs in God, our ideas and understanding will be different.
When we first discover that They exist, we all go through a gambit of emotions; wonder and fear. We struggle for understanding of how such a creature could exist. In a world that we thought we knew, this huge lifeform existed without detection for centuries. The world did not change physically once the secret was out but for those who saw, the world was never the same. The reality of their existence opened new doors and opened eyes.
The stand-off between pro-kill and no-kill is very easy for me to understand and I believe the controversy stems from lack of knowledge. Granted there is tons of information out there for all of us to wade through. Our minds are trained to accept or discard. Some are open minded and will shelve what they do not accept at that time while others are more logical and if it sounds like nonsense they discard. Neither are bad because our Father did create us differently for His purpose. We should try to be kind even if our personal beliefs on the kill or no kill runs very deep. For those that are no-kill, it is murder of our own kind. For those who are pro-kill, it is science, the taking of a specimen of an animal.
I could write a thesis on this subject but I will save you all from the boring read. I am going to simply state that this has been my observation. For the predominant part of those that represent the No-kill population are those who have had peaceful encounters with the forest people. These people generally live among them, experiencing them through out the years, gaining an understanding that cannot be done in any laboratory setting. Other no-kill advocates simply spend hours in the Foot's enviornment even if they live in the city and the time spent in their presence gives them unexplainable knowledge to preserve. And finally, there are the smallest precentage of those who have never experienced, yet they possess wisdom and compassion naturally, a knowledge that to kill one of these peoples is morally wrong. It is simple really. The more we are with them, the more we realize that they should be left alone and don't need our assistance in their preservation. We know they exist, God knows they exist. Why is it so important to prove it to a world that won't care a week from now?
The population of pro-kill are a more logical and scientific group. They seek to control their world. They want everything to be explained and catagorized. They seek natural order and man should be at the top. They want this unknown species to be captured or killed so it can be examined, labled and catagorized. Man has a history of destroying what they do not understand. What would it benefit to bring in the body if there was no money, no recognition and no glory? The answer is simple.....None. God help them, if they find out through these means that this being is a man who is stronger,wiser and more self sufficient than he is. After all, they are not trying to kill us to prove that we exist. What does that tell us? I doubt there would be any guilt over the murder but for those who sought a scientific resolution, they will definitely reflect over the once unspoken answer the rest of their lives.
I realize that my opinion is probably going to offend somebody and for that I deeply apologize. I am not trying to insult the pro-killer's beliefs. I simply believe that those who validate the pro-kill stance are lacking in personal experience and have not spent enough time with the forest people. To know it is to live it and there is no other way. Wanting a body for science means that you have still missed the truth and you should seek to find it without a gun. Pro-kill people are beginners whose aggressive intentions have kept them from experiencing the necessary observations needed to obtain higher understanding. Contrary to the beliefs of pro-kill, we are not dealing with an ape but a being that knows why you are there. The scientific reasoning of a pro-killer will cloud his experience and stall his chance at really learning about this race. Entering the woods without a weapon, humbles a human and places them on the same level as all other life in that enviornment. There is no other way to learn until you remove all threat and harm. I know many who were once pro-kill and are now no-kill. It took time but what really changed them was stepping into those woods and sharing space with the forest people time and time again. They may have been in the process of a harvest but over time, something changed. After years of hunting, they woke up to realize they were the very thing they had once despised, they were no-kill. They graduated to a greater understanding and there was no going back.
Even though I have been out of the loop for a time, I have been hearing rumblings that pro-kill applicants to this board have been rejected. I have also heard that there is some predjudice against pro-kill advocates on this forum. I have been guilty of it myself and even possibly shown itself in this post. I am very sorry if I presented it in that way. I feel they should not be rejected but offered the opportunity to learn from us. After all they are reflections of what some of us used to be. If they reject our attempts to share with them, then they can go somewhere else but if we turn them away without giving them the chance to experience what we have, then we are doing them a grave injustice. Anyone can change. Sometimes it takes the words of one person to change a person's life. On the other hand, I understand how one would feel if their knowledge was misused to harm. When you are on a no-kill forum, the chief priority is protecting these beings.
It would have to be a difficult decision for the forum administrators to make. I wish there was a peaceful and safe solution.
____________________
Courage does not always roar, Sometimes it is a quiet voice at the end of the day, saying,......" I will try again tommorow."
Mary Anne Radmacher
|
ole bub
Member
| Joined: | Thu Dec 6th, 2007 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 40 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Sat May 24th, 2008 07:26 pm |
|
Very nicely put...Fireflies...
One of the best posts on the subject I've ever read...profoundly elegant...thank you for sharing your wisdom.
Remembering those who served and sacrificed so much for so many...
live and let live...
ole bub and the dawgs
|
Bamabigfoot
Guest
| Joined: | |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Sat May 24th, 2008 09:31 pm |
|
I think if you ever got that "definitive" proof, the authorities would take it away, then you would just be that crazy old fart that keeps telling those Bigfoot stories.....might be better to just keep it to yourself. As for making a million bucks...I fail to see how that would be done, even if you had a corpse....no one would believe it.... just another side show act...
|
snooter
Member
| Joined: | Fri Apr 4th, 2008 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 34 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Sun May 25th, 2008 02:22 am |
|
| personally i am no kill...but to stradle the fence and risk alienation as i know this is a very emotional topic...i also believe a body is the only way for absolute proof.....it is my belief and desire that existance of BF never be known..i do not want to see BF in a zoo or on a slab...therefore..i just do my own thing and could care less who believes or not....at some point this is all going to be mute...some idiot will shoot a BF or a trucker will hit one on the highway..it is only a matter of time before either of the above 2 happens....then this community and others will become splintered and no good can come from that..this is a great place and reason i joined was because we have very sane posts and i at least felt differing viewpoints were heard (wether i agree or not)...heck at one time we had a debate over wether the earth was flat or round....my words its how i feel
|
oldcrow
Member
| Joined: | Tue Jul 31st, 2007 |
| Location: | USA |
| Posts: | 383 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Sun May 25th, 2008 04:02 pm |
|
I think when the time comes many things will come to light. Everything happens in God's world for a reason.
Its not so much what has been said. Its the way it came off that has bothered people. This is a place that debate goes on without harming others. When there is a room full of folks that have the locals in their lives often, if not everyday. Then someone comes in and starts making statements that go against everything these people live. It becomes counter-productive to learning.
There is an old saying (Children learn what they live. )That applies to co-habitation situations. People learn what they live. Shouting them down don't change what they know and live.
____________________
Teachers can learn much from their students.
|
Shasta
Member
| Joined: | Wed Feb 20th, 2008 |
| Location: | Oklahoma |
| Posts: | 450 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
|
Posted: Sun May 25th, 2008 10:08 pm |
|
As always Fireflies.............very well said and eloquently put, I am so honored to know you.
My position is........... to be accepted and proven to the world to exist, a body will have to be brought in BUT I personally do not care to ever see that proved. I know they exist and that is enough for me plain and simple. The different aspects of their behaviors and the little details of their very existance is a quest that I want to learn for myself. I prefer they remain the way they have for centuries..........a mystery thats sheds light and adds excitement to our own existance.
____________________
Tact is the art of making a point without making an enemy
|
BBray34
Member
|
Posted: Mon May 26th, 2008 12:23 am |
|
| Good post 7fireflies. I hope it doesn't come down to killing an RFP for the public to know it exists.
____________________
All great truths begin as blasphemies
George Bernard Shaw
|
7fireflies
Member
|
Posted: Mon May 26th, 2008 03:48 pm |
|
Thank you all for your posts. I value very much what everyone here has to say. There is a lot of knowledge roaming around this forum and so many different levels of experience. As we can see everyone here has something to contribute, something valuable. Our new members, experienced or not will bring in a refreshing outlook. They encourage us, without them knowing it, to dig deep within ourselves to express our experiences and organize our thoughts to new self revelations. I love this forum because it is the only place that I can speek freely. I can sound like a tree hugging, bigfoot loving, spiritual crazy yahoo and no one seems to mind,lol. And if they do, they restrain from expressing what they really think, showing respect and leaving the door open for possibility.
There are three subjects, however, that will throw gas on the fire and throw this forum into controversy. The first is lying. We all have shown great restraint at one time or another, writing posts and then discarding them. Even though honesty is a must, this is not considered lying if nothing is said. Fabricating events, embellishing and exaggerating, defaming anothers character and producing falsified evidence, this is lying.
The second subject is betrayal. Taking information, recordings, pictures or view points and presenting it somewhere else without the express permission of the owner. Just because it is on a public forum, does not give anyone the right to be a theif. This community is very unforgiving. Like a liar or a hoaxer, once you are labeled as a theif, the tag sticks forever. You are marked and always will be.
The third subject that is guaranteed to inflame is far less serious than the first two and that is the pro-kill stance. Granted, when this new member came in calling them monkeys there were mixed reactions. Some thought, who let this caveman from the dark ages in while others felt that someone had just deficated in their place of sanctuary. This man, whom I have never met, but have heard is a good and decent man stepped in the lion's den with a t-bone around his neck. I don't think he was warned about how deeply many members on this forum feel about the scientific approach. I can well imagine he knows now and has hung this forum on the clothesline to be left out in the rain. I sincerly hope this is not the case. From what I understand, this man is honest, that is apparent,lol and confidential. He is trusted. Eventhough he has the pro-kill ideas, he was invited to this forum based on |
